Peer Check
Peer Check

Episode 5 · 4 months ago

#5 — Why Tech is More Powerful With the Right Collaborative Relationships

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Implementing change in an industry as complex as shipbuilding is extraordinarily difficult to accomplish.

But sometimes change is necessary to keep up with technological innovations. The best way to get through it? With an open, collaborative mindset.

In this conversation with Chad Mercer, Director of Delivery at Genoa Design International , you’ll hear:

  • How industries are adapting to the demand for better, greener, and more efficient technology
  • The driving factors for industry-wide changes
  • How the Genoa Academy helps people transition from other engineering and manufacturing roles into shipbuilding
  • How collaboration helps companies thrive during the digital transformation process  

More information about Chad Mercer and today’ s topics:

To hear this interview and more like it, subscribe to Peer Check! Find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website—or just search for Peer Check in your favourite podcast player.

Welcome to peer check, a Colab podcast. This is a show for engineering leaders who want to challenge the SAS quo for how design teams work together. You're about to hear a conversation about the ways the engineering world is changing and how top teams are carving a new path forward. Let's do it. Welcome to peer check. I'm your host, Adam Keating, and today we're talking about how technology and collaboration can help advantage shipbuilding. My guests today is Chad Mercer. Chads, a naval architect by trade, has worked in the shipbuilding world for last twenty years as now the head of digital transformation at Genoa design. Welcome to the show, Chat. Thank you for having me. Excited to be here and and Chad, take me back step before we even getting into diving ship building. When you think about digital transformation for ship building, what does that mean to you? Who I've you know, when I when I think about digital transformation for shipbuilding, it it actually takes you back, I think the beginning, or GNO started really, because you know, innovation is kind of the whole borne of the necessity piece, and you know Leonard Pek or started the company back in ninety five and, you know, the whole idea the internet was just kind of getting really big and popular. Right, that's how far back. But that whole disruption of the Internet went. You know, we've got an industry here where people usually move around and, you know, have to go from shipyard a ship yard. Why can't we leverage the Internet and allow people to, you know, stay home and work? And so that was applying technology to make this big improvement. I mean that that's like the earliest version of digital transformation, if you know, for me. And now here we are, however, many years later, and we've gotten from a D model where some s, hey give me, give me some part names so I can know how to put a thing together to modeling light switches and thermostats and running all this does data and everything. And so, you know, now we're looking at it's through a completely different Lens, where you're looking and going, this isn't just about ship design anymore. There's all this data, there's all this process and there's this technology that we can take and transforming in something completely different, you know. So for for me it's that whole the people, the process to technology and what that's been able to do and what that disruption is allowed us to be able to accomplish. And where do you think the focus is like right now in the industry? There's so many different parts, you know, whether it's moving away from drawings and in models, truly a model based like getting things into the shipyard and the rest. Where where are you seeing the biggest poll and focus on, like the digital front the Shipbuilding World Today? That it? That's a really good question, I think. For for me, it really is around the whole data component of it. Like I was talking to our director of it yesterday and I think he told me that we get about sixty gigabyte to change data every three hours. Right like that. See you huge amount of ...

...data that's being generated. And so you think with the whole shipbuilding process where you're, you know, creating data, mature it add to it. So just but putting this whole data lens on that process. It's a whole another value stream lens now that's on top and I think, at least for me anyway, that's where the focus should be, is on applying good data management to it and leveraging that data for the full full stream of the vessel and or the asset, whatever it happens to be, is that even crosses industries, right. Was One of the interesting parts. I always has shipbuildings like somewhere between manufacturing and construction, like it's not really smack DAB in either. In my mind, like it's kind of like a building on water, but so complicated that it's actually a lot more like manufacturing than just a building, that there's a whole bunch of stuff that just fits together, which makes it really tricky, right, because construction projects are typically multi year, very drawing based, very planned focus. Manufacturing is very, usually very assembly focused. Did you have both those problems, which makes us data probably worse, because there's, you know, thousands and thousands of clashes, thousands and thousands of interfaces. How do you even start to manage like that, that volume of change data? Like, what do you think teams can be doing to be smarter about it? Is it shifting towards being fully D and working in real time together? Is it like integrating all your tools? What do you what do you think is sort of the key to getting people moving in the right direction, which is like that volume of information, you know, I think I think it comes down to being very purposeful and what you're doing and you know you hit on something that's really important. It isn't in either one of those effect for me. I think of it I'm it's a mega project. You're building this huge mini city, basically that has the float and make that work across multiple teams, very specialty skills, and then you need to find some way to build it in an efficient way, which is why we see so much of the manufacturing piece come in, because you kind of go, Holy Crap, I've got this really big thing to build. How can we get that into manageable, repeatable chunks? Because it's going to span, you know, years. We've got project running up to a decade to from the time you start, say time to finish. So you have to be very purposeful and how you do it, and I think by by approaching the whole process from that Data Lens, you know, and trying to make sure that each step is building on the last one. So there's a bit of a lend shift. I think that that's eventually got to happen and I think it's happening. That disruption is already happening. It's what I think NSS in Canada anyways, helping to drive that. I mean the whole idea of a stable industry needs you to be able to build on that, to get economies a scale and all that stuff. So for me it really is looking at that, at that data and what's being generated, and making sure that we're always thinking with the future in mind and trying to leverage it and add to it has opposed to going back to, you know, change it all the time. Yeah, it's I definitely think it's a big part of it. I'll...

...ask you a load of question. The are the world of manufacturing in general right now today is very drawing based, model supported at best. Shipbuilding particular is very drawing based in terms of how things are actually built. You talked about there being sixty eight bytes to data every three you know, every three hours. You know, half of that probably is drawing changes on top of model changes. What do you think the time horizon is for truly building a ship from a D model and not meeting drawings? But what's like? What's realist like? What's in the window that's actually going to be possible? Yea, wow, you you're right. That is a loaded question, boy. I I don't think it's going to happen in the next three to five for sure it you know, it's a longer term horizon and I think you're going to see some version of drawings for a long, you know, decade plus kind of thing. But I also think there's a lot of change. It's going to happen and have to happen quick just the world is going to demand it. Know, there's there's not only all the technology that were applying to the shipbuilding peace itself, there's all just the world is demanding greener technology, fast or better, more efficient, all this kind of stuff, automated vessels. But all of this stuff is happening and it was really interesting for me come from the construction side. I guess is people want to take all that construction by a STATA now and use for other things, which is going to, you know, kind of in a psych cycle way, go back and force us to start changing and a rethink and how we created to begin with. Right. So I think that's going to those kinds of demands are going to force us to rethink how we're creating things. DPRINTING. There are yards in the world now d printing parts and what not. So the right away that's already starting to shift a little bit away from from him to have the drawings and everyone's folks toward. How can we do better and if if a person could literally take a D model on a tablet or something, assuming a tablet of this cost effective and easy and you can walk it with augmented reality and virtual reality and uses. You know they're going to get there. It's just it's a matter of that whole shift and and the timing of because again, our life cycle is in quite often five pin plush years, right. So you're not going to make that switch entirely in the middle of a build program and take jeopardy on that job. Right. I'd be I'd be interested to see not this current set are projects that have already been, you know, decided, that are happening, but you know the next wave that come out, you know a few years now from now with the bids, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if you start to see requirements in those big packages then having some level of model focus. Now I think you've already seen, I think of some of them now, but digital twin be able to support and as built model that can actually be used in manufacturing. But I think you might even see the next version, which is like parts of this being leveraged from the model. We're seeing it in aerospace, an automotive. We're actually one of the biggest tensions in supply chain today is that some of the big companies that are leading way and model based enterprise, model based definition shift,...

...they want their suppliers to read their d data to manufacture the Paris to save them the time. They don't want to create the drawings, but their suppliers don't know how to read this data because, candidly, it's complex, like it's like reading a phone book that is no longer organized. Is kind of like what it equates to with the amount of information you trying to dissect. So do me smarter ways to take that on. But I could see, you know, a couple of years time you get that next big ship. There's a next you know, forty billion dollar program coming up. There's a lot to be gained. But you talked about the efficiency and, like the economy today, if you can make that change and folks on the ship and really truly the ship and it's easier to actually build it, that's billions of dollars down the road. Yeah, I think it's bound to come. Which Program I you know? That I don't know, but the more that companies are trying to do in service support and life cycle management on vessels, the mean the intent is there. The ASKA is there to build and use existing data and technology and it's for people to rethink even how do you take that information and visualize it, standardization of format, Oh and what have you've got classification societies that want to be able to leverage the model to make their life and their customers life, by vert of that, a little bit easier. So I agree there's going to be a shift. There's there's already demands that are happening. I think the the timing is is going to be a function of you know, it's going to be the thing. That's a driving function, I guess. Is what I'm trying to say because again, back you're in the middle of building these things. So the ships that are about to be built today, or we're talked about and figured it out, you know, three, five, whatever years ago. Yeah, so there's this whole leg that's going to come because of the sheer magnitude of what's being built. But at the same time, what's kind of exciting, especially for like companies like Genoa, is you do get to try new things as you go for your own internal process. I mean that's, you know, Colab and Genoa working together. We said, Hey, there's a great opportunity here. Let's try this and see how it helps us and then see what we can go from. Their kind of a thing, you know, and we've seen value there. Yeah, now I think that's all it's about, right. It's about how do you take something that's truly waterfall and compress that in a little bit to the agile where it's not irresponsible, because these projects do have an insane volume of requirements that you cannot lose. Tracos. So like pure agile and its normal sense just does not work. There's a there's there's a simplified agile framework safe that people use. There's these be a new one for megaprojects. I don't know what that's called yet. Maybe you can figure that out for us and let us know next time around, but I'm curious. As on the topic of change and this this swhich you see happening, who do you think drives it for shipbuilding, because there's so many different ways. I can see it, there's the class, there is the customer, governments and commercial, there's a ship builders and there's all the companies are doing the actual design work. who had the ability to be like truly the most innovative ones in the group? Who Do you think is like leading that change? And...

I got to follow on question I asking a moment. Okay, I actually think the technology itself, as West driving is and and the people within it so for across the industry as a whole. To give me you think about your phone. Yeah, you can do augmented reality. V are everything on this thing now, and so everyone, your grandmother for facetime, you all this kind of stuff, and it's become intuitive and everyone, you know, thumbs through facebook or whatever. So everyone's expectation has gone up a notch for how easy something can be, how quickly you can get a solution, just even the pace at which someone responds, know, to a text message, and those expectations. You know that that in and of itself is driving people's expectations then in their their work life. And so the industry is is then setting expectations based on what techn technology is posting. I mean technology changes at such a rapid pace faster than what you know shipbuilding can could certainly keep up with begetting back to the main, to the scale. So everyone's looking forward and going holy you know, here's all these things. What could we be doing? Designers want to design easier, they want to get information faster. So they're they're demanding it as part of their work life. Shipyards want to be able to build more efficiently and get their input from companies like Genoa faster and better, and they want to engage in that environment more. And how do you do that? Collaboratively, and you know what I mean. So I think the technology indirectly, has been in the the driver for it, you know, for itself. Because of that, one of the cool parts actually, like it's funny you say it that way. I never when I asked you the question, I wasn't think you're going to say that. I was kind of thinking to be one part of the other and everyone's pulling along, but that actually kind of makes sense. And if you think about the way shipbuilding a structured itself, especially with like NSS, N SRP, like even the ocean supercluster, like these little groups are coming together which almost marry all those pieces together. The puzzle and you know what, to be fair, we work with people in this industry and I do see a lot of the openness to everyone kind of trying to solve it together, and it's not always the same in other industries. Is Not always like truly cross bound or trying to figure it out. It's more like one person's sides and others figure out or whole bunch of people just start doing it and then the bigger players whose I need to get involved. Ship really seems like there is a bit of a conscious effort, like I know you folks do some collaborations with your customers and other partners in industry. For people thinking about like how to actually make a change here, N SS, N SRP, where do you even start, like how do you how do you get involved? How do you find like these initial partners? So I know just talking you mentioned Leonard at the beginning, like he introduced me a while ago to some players there and it seems like everyone's willing, everyone wanting to help. How do you get start? Is it literally just as simple as reaching out with someone and getting involved, or is it more to it than that? I definitely think there's a bit of a showing up part of it, you know, and and building a relationship is huge. I mean the industry shipbuilding, as much as we build big things and it's global, it's not massive, especially in North America. Okay, it's big risk because you're building this really big thing and...

...you're going through all this iterative design process and what have you. And so I think there's there's definitely the building relationship. Are Getting out getting you're getting out there to say hey, we're here and here's what we can do to help. But I think the other half of that is also around bind set. You know, if you're showing up with an onnbiased view to try and help solve a problem, to drive innovation and remove a pain point. That kind of thing is said of necessarily showing up with here. Here's my answer. If you're really showing up to go hey, we think we understand some of your problem, let's just learn more about and see what we might be able to do to help. That kind of mindset, I think, is the biggest thing you could do to try and influence and become part of that change, because there is an openness to it. I mean everybody wants to do better and everybody wants to improve it and industries demanding it. So I did. I think definitely the mindset piece and and building relationship with with folks as pretty much the same as when you're actually on the contract. It's all about that relationship. And then even internal right, it's about the Relationshipshire building cross functionally. You'd have a structure. You're talking about electrical you're talking about piping systems like that. is a constant balance of like how do you make this all work together? Yeah, at one time we want to talk a little bit like take this from the Industry Lens and was changing there. I think about what a company can actually do themselves to actually be better. I think we talked a lot about collaboration and like just like really being open to new, new ideas being a big part of that for jump into like how do that? Well of the team. One really unique thing about you, know, as you've built this Genoa Academy that I think you very proud of as a company. I've done a lot with what is the Genoa Academy? What is it? So did Genoa Academy that? That's something that we started a number of years ago. I can't exactly remember when. But you know, the industry is a whole. There's a shortage of skilled labor right so we had to figure out how can we reasonably scale which we have, how do you get people up to speed and how do you develop them and put a focus on people? I mean, at the end of the day, you know definitely what we're trying to leverage technology and be datacentric in our decisions and purposeful, but it's all people. You're using all the stuff to help mobilize a part of people to achieve a goal. And the Genoa Academy is our is our development capacity to be able to bring people in, on board, them into the business, teaching leadership skills, teach them how to model structure and and it's our way of guess, of trying to tackle that problem or that pain point of you know, the industry doesn't have a whole lot of people. How do we bring people in, get him up to speed quickly, support them to meet those expectations, convert people from other industries? You know not, because there's not enough people coming at a school and in naval architecture marine systems alone to satisfy it. And you got really talented intelligent, brilliant people that you could bring in from civil from, you know, electrical of buildings and all kinds of things, convert their their knowledge and their skill set to want to put it into a ship. And you folks are...

...doing like everything from getting people up speed on Genoa to your tools and technology. It's a really interesting way of taking the first part of what we talked about, which is like institutionalizing technology change broadly, and then also baking into like just the the behaviors and like the daytoday off your team, because then you start getting people thinking. You know, you get you get one of those ten people plus their hand up with some other brilliant idea and you then start, like I know we've talked about you folks us and D scanners to do central jobs. We've talked about different data integrations and data plays and analyze and quality data. We've talked about all these things. Those all came from employees thinking of like, okay, this part of my job. Who We better if we did that? But I think the academy is like such a beautiful sort of unique thing that you folks had built that it's probably important for a lot of people to do like we're we're considering a cola. They do. We need to build something more formal where people kind of go through with the the meat people. They do it all. But it's a really cool way to think about. You know, how do you actually help the industry with technology? Is Building almost a little technology academy and getting people acquainted with here's a lot of it is today. You know, here's what I could be in the future. How many people have gone through the academy now? Do you think, because I know Jenos after growing con in the last four years, like it's got to be hundreds of people this point out about it. There's a couple of hundred for sure. I'M A we're we're two hundred and seventy plus today and when we start at the academy we probably would have been around about forty. So everybody is gone through something in the academy, even those those first, you know, first few. So yet hundreds of people have gone through and done something, whether it's leadership training or emotional intelligence training or structure training or whatever. Everybody has been has gone through something with the with the academy, and you said it really well begetting you said, you know, for me it's more about people, the process and a technology and digital transformation. I think that's actually one of the best investments you can make your people. Is like actually being very prescriptive about we're putting time, resources and value on making it better for the things you need to do, and that comes back around full service, not just in their performance and the rest by like given example, we work with you folks, one of your designers actually recorded a video sort of like without any being asked on how to use coling and that just became something they did. And that happens more and more and more. Right, like you can't make that stuff up, you can't ask, like, even if you ask on to do that, it's not going to be as good as when someone just feels like the urge to help other people because it's there, because it's a really beautiful a little channel of knowledge, which I think that's actually one of the main things and making transformation happens, having people want to be part of a change all. Absolutely I think the people element of digital transformation, even though I know it's digital, is the the number one thing. Like you can have all the best technologies, you can have all the best process as you can figure out if nobody wants to use if no one's body into it, they're not going to use it. You know, not not in the same way, and you're definitely not going to get all that organic voluntary participation and improvement right. You...

...know, I hadn't heard that story. That's really cool to here, I you know, but that goes that really says a lot about that individuals buying and that there's something they're getting and they feel like there's a value, they're valued and there are part of the change right and they see an opportunity to contribute and that it's it's open to them to do so. And that's really important for me, someone who has been with the company really long time, that that's still there, because that's part of you know, did you know story? For me it has been that that's that openness and that, you know, that environment where it's safe to put your hand up and engage and stuff and share ideas and strive for continuous improvement. So to go from when I started almost twenty years ago with with the company and there was, you know, twenty of us or something, to where we are now and is still have those kind that's yeah, that's that's that's so I'm not very proud of it. It's I'M gonna go deeper on that. So, like we started here in technology. You know, what does this all mean? What is the industry looking like? There's obviously a lot of big things coming. We bowled it back here to, you know, the people side of this is where people are really investing in those it's just been driven by technology and people really an opportunity eventually do regulations. Classic getting bold, customers will make rules. It'll eventually the point where it's just required, but the real innovations happened at that level. One thing really unique about Joa us, since I know you so well, is the culture and values on top of this academy that are really making a special place to work and I think anybody look at your website seeing publicly can feel about what does that actually mean, though? Like most companies today will say they'll have a mission statement or have values and like I don't know if they fully truly live them every day or that. I feel that when I when I talk to you folks, that there's like a unified set of values that people lived by. What are you know's values and and why are they so ingrained. Like why is it some of the people actually latch on to come to you for? How did that happen? As an interesting question. And you know so that your mission, in your purpose and stuff, sometimes changes and evolves into will, like Jenoah's has over time and and whatnot. The values, though they don't, not really nevery often, they're the kind of the root of who we are seem as an individual, your own values drive you right and I think the big difference, at least you know from my perspective, was when we set those which was a number of months to fair back in I think two thousand and thirteen or something, took us months to ground on what they were in the wording. Every little word had meeting and it wasn't about describing who we wanted to be. It was really trying to align on who we were, and I think the the effort that went into that to really say this is what we are. It's not who we're going to be in ten years or anything like that, this is who we are. That's what made it resonate because it was it was honest, it was genuine, it's relatable. You know, the first one on our list is putting people first. The live. Well, there's a there's a there's a list of them that we definitely put into every...

...decision that's made and try to focus on, and it's something we don't know, we're looking at this year to go, you know, let's look at our values and see as all that's still stacking up and let's put a Mir in front of ourselves and make sure, you though, are they still true and if not, we're do what do we need to make? Tweaks right? But yeah, that to me, that that's the part of it is. Don't describe who you want to be, who are you? What's important, and then keep that, try to keep that as much as is reasonably possible in front of mine when you make in your making your choices. Yeah, and people who come and stay will stay because of those. Could those core pieces right and who and and feeling it? I agree, and I think in digital transformation, lines like the values can make you. You can build a really good company around good values, clear purpose, you know, and a good game plan. Like you can build a really good business to do something like we're talking about here, which is take a good business, a really strong business, and it's at changing industry, the true digital transformation, true like true change, even forget the buzz were at in general, like making the next step of evolution happen here. It then takes a one, one layer more, I think on the on values, and it's almost like beliefs we talk a lot about in our plan. Like one of your beliefs, you know, is embracing technology to make it as effective possible for your engineering team, and that's not a belief everyone has. Like it sounds obvious, but a lot of people are not willing to spend money on technology to make them better at doing their job, and that's a fundamental pat of advantage, I think, for Genoa and others that embrace it. What other beliefs do you think you folks have? Like, I think being stuck in status quo is something you're like always challenging. But like, have you guys got that level yet where you're mapping out, you know, from a change perspective? You know, what do we really believe in? I know, I think that's what that's really good question. I need to think, but that for a second. I think we've talked a lot a bit where we want to go. Yeah, and what what we see is the opportunities and where we can add value and how we can contribute, how we're in some ways we're becoming a technology company that does shipbuilding. Yeah, right, you know. And just I think it's the the recognition of how big technology is, how how important it's going to be had that's going to play and on people and the whole connection between the two. I think the belief in that and the two things working together is the part that we viewed and at least from my perspective, and and in leverage and that going forward to to to improve the industry, to find our opportunity to make a difference. Yeah, we actually just went through as a coal I were real thinking product planning, you know, go to market, strategy, everything going back to, you know, what are our beliefs in the world, saying you said, you know, what do you see it looking like in five or ten years? But what are the pillars off that belief that even like tie back to our values? A really simple one would be like we actually want to build software that the end user likes to use. Sounds simple, but if you look at the MPs for almost every single cad pl I'm product on the market, today, they're not very good when you compare it to like typical Sass tool that we've sell those sales and marketing team. That's like purpose bills. You've got MPs for. Is that our ninety that are like, you know,...

...almost impossible believe it that high, and then you've got nds scores that are like negative eighty, and it's like the people hate using it, but they do it because it fixes a problem, right, like a fix the problem. Yeah, that's like one of our fundamental beliefs. We want to build something that makes you have it's herd, but it got some over decisions are similar for you to one of yours, being technology means you invest even when it is difficult, because it's going to pay off in long term, and I think that's super important. I'm curious on the like just a last couple of years you've grown so much. You tackle the pandemic. What have been like a couple of the like the digital things that you folks have done smartly? that it helped like mobilize a full team home at one point. But like, how did you make this shift? What are a couple like the key takeaways over the last couple of years? Of Quick Wins in the digital world. For sure building. You know, I think in terms of that whole shift and the big takeaways, kind of goes back to where we started it right. It's the whole innovation is born at a necessity, you know, the Internet piece. There's just, you know, disruption and we said, okay, let's embrace that disruption. What can we do with it and how do we work through it? Covid happens. We all had to deal with it. We had figured out, okay, how do we move forward? You can, you know, watch the solution and very purposefully looking. Okay, we got to put our team first, because we got to figure out how are they going to be healthy? They're going to be okay, can we do this? How can we leverage the technology that we've got? How do we make sure we can deliver to our customer and make sure that they're getting what they need? And I think recognizing that it was a massive change as well, like it, because it was. It was. It was a huge, big thing. And then so we deliberately put things in place to put a covid response team in place to look at all that stuff kind of holistically and folks and how can we leverage technology to help us, to help us do this and be really open and honest and I think having some realistic expectations and a bit of given take with your team to write and going hey, look, we don't have all the stuff figured out. Here's the things we're going to try and do and work. Let's work together and try to figure this out. And you know, here we are have many years later and still still going to try. Me We recruit a hundred people, I think it was, through over over the pandemic, over the course of a year. So we found a way. You know, that's awesome. Yeah, I've watched a lot of that journey and I've been impressed the whole way through it, like moving home. Even just like most the industry in general wasn't ready for even video calls, to be honest. Like, yeah, it was a big difference, like being in person. Think about two years ago. Two years ago, if I wanted to talk to an engineering manager, director VP, I was flying to see them because they didn't want to talk to me on phone. Now it's actually opposite. They don't want me flying to see them because they don't want me taking several hours of their day. They want to talk to me for twenty minutes and then when they're ready and we're ready to go build something cool, then yeah, I fly and see them, but it's a fundamental shift. So that's really interesting that you mentioned that because there's a couple of observations for myself like that to like, we've got, you know, people in different locations here Vancouver, will our new from land of Vancouver and in Halifax, Nova Scotia and down...

...in the US, and one of the things that that covid actually did was at level the playing field. Right, everybody is now contributing through a virtual medium. The geographic bias has gone because everyone is was through that medium. It made you a lot more conscious consider us of you know what other folks are trying to do when is trying to communicate digitally. I mean we all talked about things that you didn't have in that environment. There were some good stuff that did come like that, right, and we you know this the stuff that you got to cling on to nowative that whole that whole experience, is what did actually work. And why? How do you keep those pieces? I know for myself, I was traveling back and forth to to Vancouver to the customer site, you know, every two months or so, and you know, over two years everything became these video confidence call so it makes you kind of Reevali and go you need to fly that much anymore? Everyone's adopted now the technology as you describe. How much more efficient can we allbe as people and in our lives and in work life balance and stuff? Now is, as you know, response to that too. It all goes back dough right to transformation. People didn't realize that happened, he said like a moment ago. Like innovation happens out of necessity. I think we just had one of those inflection points like covid drove. Necessity which force people stop flying so much for feebly virtual force shipbuilding manufacturing companies to be global forces. A think about supply chains again, all those things. I think there's a second there's a second reset coming basically economy. Sometime in the next few years there is going to be we already feeling it, like you can already feel the inflation, you can already feel the pressure to perform and we're seeing across every single customer segment, whether it's because supply chain problems or just Larry margins you're seeing that pressure to perform, which is going to create, I think, winners and losers in terms of WHO embraces technology and gets is ready for it, because the second wave of this is going to be different. It's going to be, like, very monetary. There won't be support for it, like there won't be ways to fix it. It's going to be tricky and tangly and I think doing these things now, where the behaviors are shifting, and being nimble and thinking about it is is ultimately the way to go because, like you said, it comes back to people, technology, process and being able to weather the storm. Is Sort of a summation of how good you're doing the three of those things. I think you know and and you think about new fland culture and you know the whole way that we became a province was, you know, through necessity and through working through those challenges. So you know, you kind of hopefully rely on some of that. That, I guess, great to help go through those those changes. We're right there. There's another inflection point coming, there's another change coming. I hadn't really thought about it being in a the you know, and an economic one, but you know, you're right and you know, the ship the shipbuilding industry as a whole has been a boom bust industry, right. So we've seen the bus thing and how you know, economic pressures can come. So there's some takeaways from that to they what what you know? Successful companies who wrought out the bust part are the ones that catapult up for the next boom part. And so if you keep building on that, that helps build the...

...trends that you can use for whatever the next inflection point happens to be. Well, it's really important at this point, right now, I'd be investing in being ready for that because, give you an example, there's a there's a VP. I was talking to you last week and we're talking about, you know, how can we help them transform parts of you know, how they're doing design to viewing these types of things and they're they're ready to go, like they're ready to invest in this. And the short term they have a supply chain problem, like today there's wide chain problem, which pump the brakes on. Okay, should we do? Should we fix this now and how it works? And that's that's a good decision to focus get it done. Then you think about what is going to be the impact of that in two years time when we don't have the choice and you're trying to scramble. It's the same thing we all just went through and we all slam Microsoft teams. Luckily, Marstoft teams a pretty easy switch. When you think about switching, like how you actually engineer, how you actually think and solve problems, as a much bigger thing than like where you type of chat message. That's why I think is like the key here is like identifying that now and seeing that you get ahead of it and doesn't go down. They know the kind of doesn't tank. I don't tank. It's a competitive advantage and if you do it now and it does tank, it's going to be the thing that keeps the company alive. Another real intercession, right, and they no a like. That's that's like really good companies came out of that because they were prepared in some way or another to deal with it. Because you're right, it is very ebbs and flows, and it's not just shipbuilding. It just shipbuildings more obvious because it's much more one and zero like it. Ye, ship board. They're not and it's still big. So they're indrees. People just need a pile. Not a lot of its the megaproject thing right. Yeah, you see it. You see an all gass, you see it like you're sing to see it everything. It's even just the consumer behavior. You'd think about how that changes parts of gas. Yeah, is going to change consumer behavior dramatically if it stays in this range right now, because it's just not feasible for the average household. We paying that kind of money to live that kind of way. You stop going on road trips, you stop buying new things, and then once that starts to happen, you're the full ripple effect. And that comes right back to the engineering teams, innovation groups. I'm like, who is ready to do this thing five times faster or ten percent more fishing or whatever it might be, because it's very hard to go from zero to one when you're not practicing like that continuous impermit mindset when it comes to actually adopting technology. Absolutely I did, and that's the one thing I'll say about the NSS program and I think for me personally, I really bought into this vision of NSS and building a stable industry in the country. That kind of foresight and that kind of investment. It takes a while to see, you know, reaping the benefits, but it's all geared towards a stable industry and so all the stuff you have to do to be stable takes a long term view, which means you kind of got to start being prepared for we're different stuff. Come are you won't be stable. You know what I mean. And when we got involved in it, my person of you on it was this was NSS was a catapult and a way for us to build a band strength, build a capability and, you know, build our business, build the industry. I really really do believe in what that, that that pro ghram was meant to do and I think those things are...

...going to help shipbuilding for all those that buy into it and all those that are using it that way. It's going to really help with that, with that change when it comes. Yeah, no, I agree, like you think the combination of like understanding racing technology, the people and the collaboration side, putting that together in a way where relationship started to build and people are seeing what the future might look like, what those beliefs might be. I'm really just invest in from me to it, that, ultimately is what's going to make you know it's going to weather the next dorm, that next big wave that comes in. You're going to be all ride the waves that getting crushed by it and that's ultimus going to make the difference here. So, chat, I really appreciate the time. I really appreciate the insights. I'm super excited to see what, you know it does in the next number of years and I also hope to see in the next like you know, maybe it's five or ten, maybe we get out of drawings all together and shipbuilding world, maybe folks the full force and make a twice effective. So thanks for joining us today. So thank you very much for having me. I really appreciate it. You know I'm I'm I will say I'm really thrilled to see what you guys are doing, to see what technology sector in Newfoundland is doing in Canada as a whole and how that's for me personally, how that's helping us and what we're trying to do in our industry as well. So looking forward to keep, you know, to keep driving and sharing and, you know, building a better future for us. Awesome. Thanks, Chad. COLLAB is on a mission to accelerate the pace of engineering innovation by giving design teams a better way to work. As an engineering leader, you know it's crucial to empower your team to do their best work. Let colab help you achieve your goals with our web based tool that makes it easy to share and review cad files with anyone, so you can focus on the work that batters without missing a beat or a bolt. Learn more at Collab softwarecom. You've been listening to pure check, a Colab podcast. Keep connected with us by subscribing to the show in your favorite podcast player, and please leave a rating on the show. That helps us keep delivering conversations about how the engineering world is changing and how you can challenge the Status Quell. Until next time.

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