Peer Check
Peer Check

Episode 8 · 3 months ago

#8 – Creating an Effective KPI Strategy in an Engineering Company

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Keeping track of progress and KPIs feels like a never-ending challenge in any industry. But for engineering and manufacturing businesses, it gets even more difficult. When unexpected delays and obstacles can pop up at any moment, how can leaders set the right goals to guide their team to success?

Niru Somayajula, CEO of Sensor Technology, joins Adam Keating to dive into her approach to setting KPIs within an engineering company, how to be an effective leader, and what it takes to foster growth.

Join us as Niru and Adam talk about:

  • How a technical background impacts growth and success as a business leader
  • How financial transparency improves a team’s understanding of KPIs and company goals
  • Setting company goals using revenue targets and budget constraints
  • How Sensor Technology balances OKRs with individual KPIs
  • Lead and lag indicators in an engineering context

More information about Niru and today’s topics:

To hear this interview and more like it, subscribe to Peer Check! Find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website—or just search for Peer Check in your favourite podcast player.

Welcome to peer check, a Colab podcast. This is a show for engineering leaders who want to challenge the status quo for how design teams work together. You're about to hear a conversation about the ways the engineering world is changing and how top teams are carving a new path forward. Let's do it. Welcome to peer check. I'm your host, Adam Keating, and today we're talking about why engineering leaders should look at Kpis in the same way of business leaders do. My guess today is Nearo Somno Zula, the president and CEO of Sensor Tech. She's second generation owner of the company. Technical background, absolutely brilliant business mind family. First person that's coming in here and saying how do we actually take you know what's worked in the business world and bring that into the engine org and marry a two together? You're welcome to the show. Thanks for having yeah, I'm really interested that you started in technical background and now you're running a company. How did you first get in the tech and and why make the shift? I didn't have a choice to my parents both technical immigrants from India and very keen on me being a professional, and so I had a choice of engineering or medicine or law. That was it, that's that's all I was allowed to pursue. Biology is not my thing and legal stuff not, I think, either. So it was engineering, and so I applied to lots of engineering schools out of high school. They forced me to take tech classes in high school. I was like that girl in tech classes and I loved it. So what do you do? So I ended up in engineering and then I kicked out of engineering because I was software. Engineering wasn't my thing and I ended up switching into geophysics. So that's where it's a rock acoustics, I guess, and spent my my time in university learning about rocks and how they're formed and the acoustic properties and how you...

...know. Yeah, all of that. So that's awesome. It sounds like our parents of the same philosophy. I was also given the same the same ultimatum early on, and maybe it led me here to tell me, tell me about how you got into the business, though. So, like the technical side, that's a big jump and I know it was in the family, but still, how do you make that jump? And what's it like running a business today? And I'm very technical product yeah, so I actually you know, when I left Small Town Ontario went to university as zero intentions of ever coming back to work for the family business. I wanted to go as far away as possible to travel the world, and one of my internships during my my schooling was to work for a while and gas company in France and it kind of opened up my world to what offshore life might be like as an engineer or technical person. And so I went to Grad school and while I was there my parents actually we're getting ready to sell the business to this saying oil and gas company that I had interned with a couple of years big multinational, and they said, well, we need a transition team and to come in and help transition out their current management, my parents and their partner, to a new team that would get absorbed up into this multinational and then we'd be free to kind of get absorbed within the company and move careers or do whatever. Really, how you pass up an offer like that right? And so my fiance at the time and industrial engineer myself, I brought in a second cousin that worked for British Petroleum in Chicago who's interested in moving to Canada. Three of US formed a new management team took over the business and then part way through the three year transition the deal fell apart. Oil and gas had tanked. The buyers weren't doing anymore, Ma and so the deal kind of died and I had fallen in love with the business. I never thought I would move back to small town Ontario and I was a manager. I was operations manager during that time and the deal had fallen apart and...

...my parents were already transitioning out so they didn't really want to be transition back into the business. So the three of US decided to buy the business. Yeah, bout eleven. Wow, he's going now. Wow, I didn't know. I didn't know that part of this story. That's incredible. So eleven years obviously like for you can go about beyond that. When you made the choice to buy the business. What was like the thought process there? I imagine the passion was like the part making you grip on as and say, you know what, maybe I'm scared, maybe I'm nervous, but I got to do this. Like, what was the thinking process to go from, like you know well, felt like a fairly reasonable transition with a big company to okay, let's go on around very scary taking over family business. How did you make that decision? I don't know. I was pregnant at the time, so I'm not sure if that helped it or hurt it. To be ones, it's I think, you know, I was I've been. I've been working unofficially in the business since I was three years old, you know, like all my memories are in this business and the thought of it going to somebody else just, you know, at that point, didn't suit you know, I was just how could I leave this to somebody else? This is my legacy, this is my family history. I've got two great partners that are super technical, which allowed me to focus on the business side, which, you know, worked out really great at the time and I was like why not? You know, what do we got to lose? And you're young and don't know any better, maybe, but and I had helped. Like you know, my parents weren't going anywhere. They were going to be grandparents fairly soon, but they're still in town, they're available to help and I knew if I needed something they'd be around, and so I think we just took the leap of faith that we had what it would take to keep it going. You know, fifteen years later we're still do it it. So that's so bad. That's absolutely incredible. I'll come back to today's state in a little bit. I want to dive into one pieces on a technical front before we get into Kpis and how to think about how do you think about running a business that has a very technical product? My...

...question for you is having that technical background. I'll be a maybe software wasn't the thing for you, but having the geophysics background, having like the technical brain, what do you think that's meant for you as a business leader? What does it allows you to do that you think you might have struggled with otherwise? One it's credibility. So often when I'm trying to sell products to a customer, I'm talking to their engineering team first. I don't talk to senior management always. I'm often talking to an engineer that has a problem that they're trying to solve and everything we do is custom and so we're problem solvers just like you, right, and so you have to talk on their level and meet having the background and geophysics and all the internships that I did, and I think it gives me some sense of credibility. And then I can very quickly, you know, at least understand what they're trying to do and then pass them off to my very smart people that end up taking over and then ideal on the commercial side. But I think it gets me the foot in the door because we are still small, you know, we're considered a pretty small business, and so working with some of the big giants that we do, and both defense and oil and gas, you know, you've got to find a way to relate and that background helps, I think, a lot. How big is the team? I want to say we're about forty five, roughly. Yeah, Nice. And what are like the custom solutions? Like getting there of those engineers, the teams? Like where you spending most of your time today? I like the custom development front. Me, I'm doing most of my side on the bd set. So I'm spending it developing the relationships with new companies that could use what we're making, developing the relationships all of our expansion. I tend to spend a lot of my time and figuring out where the next steps going to be on that side as well and bringing in the right team to help actually execute on all the product ideas that I kind of come up with. That's awesome and like you didn't do an MBA. So how did how did you become the business leaderly, what did you do to make that transition? So there were three of us when we took over the business and replacing three. My Dad was really, really...

...technical. He was the CEO on the business. He was super, super technical. He did most of our product design. They had a VP of oops that kind of helped run the production. My mom was very much on the financial side, so she did a lot of the hiring, the firing and she managed all the finances. And so, you know, when I was brought in, I was brought in as a technical person because that's, you know, what I was trained to be doing. But when we got into the process of due diligence and taking over the business, my mom told me aside and she's like, you know, the person that runs the business is the one that manages the finances, and that was her advice to me at the time, even though, you know, my dad's pulling me towards technical stuff. It's like, you gotta run the finances if you want to run the business, if that's the role that you want, and so I kind of took that advice. I helped her assemble tax returns at the end of the year, which is the school a hard knocks. Definitely not not an MBA. She taught me a little bit. We had really good accountants. I think I ended up switching our accountants to ones that could actually to teach me and and to be able to educate me on the things I needed to know to be able to run the business without getting into the weeds of every penny. I'm still very much not a penny person, but I still look at the bank accounts, you know, three times a week. That's what I do. It's an interesting I think there's lots of engineering managers, directors, VP's out there who don't quite have the experience that you've had where you actually get to take over company right that obviously it's your baby. You need to make sure you don't run a money you need to make sure that you're in targets like you don't have another choice. But the hindset of understanding the financial applications, when you look at other goals and and Kpis it's so much context. It's not just we're trying to deliver to market at certain time or hit a certain budget. There's a reason you're going for those numbers and I think that's missed a lot for traditional manager, director BP roles, because it's the companies are usually huge right they don't really know how it rolls back. So, like how do you think about communicating that to your team,...

...like, taking what you know on the financial statement side and how the doledge and sense got to add up, how do you communicate that to your other leaders and the rest of the groups? Say and we've set a goal. Here's why, like here's why it matters. So I think a lot of times it's missing. But a lot of companies that's not there. I even struggle with it sometimes. But how's your approach to bring the team along for the journey? As of late, my senior leadership team actually gets probably eighty percent of the profit lost statements now, and so they see direct impacts of they're seeing the revenue and we have revenue targets as part of our KPIS. But also they see, you know, that impacts of hiring. You know, you hire five engineers, it's really different than five, you know, five other workers. It's just they see how one affects the other and so I think having them be part of it, which is new for us. It's historically always been just me and so that that piece doesn't translate really well. Now that the senior leadership team sees all of that, they I think they have a bigger appreciation for why I push on certain things. You know why we need to get this product to market, why we can't book the bigger booth at the trade show right. You know we're don't want to spend Fiftyzero, you want to spend five. And this is why. You know, because we've got all of these other costs and how much we spend on hydro. It's like, yeah, we got to turn the lights off the end of the day because you see the impact. I think them being able to see some of that, it hits home. Did did you start sharing the PNL for that purpose, for transparency and by and then the rest? Was that sort of motivation? Yeah, I needed so. I have ahead of operations in Ontario and then my GM here in Nova Scotia and then my product design lead in Nova Scotia as well, and I just couldn't be running everything. It's too much, especially when I'm trying to work on what's happening five years out or ten years out. I can't be in the weeds of like, why did we spend so much on one thing? Right, and so having them take ownership over that. And so my head of ops in Ontario manages the Ontario Piano. Then there's a piano for Nova Scotia, and...

...so having them sort of own that part of it. Not Looking at equipment assets and Amortization, they don't. He'll handle any of that. Bank interest and all of that kind of stuff they don't look at. But everything else they've got direct impact over. So now they manage it and it's part of their responsibility. It's really interesting actually we're going through the exact same thing right now. We went from thirty five people to eighty people in the last six months and it's been like, you know, went from a very small team where, you know, the only now we were worrying about financially was revenue and how much wrong way do we have? Really that was like, truthfully, the numbers you looked at too. Now we're trying to build like truly a SASS company that that grows in Scales and we think about burn and how it all fits together and all the things you're talking about and we're about to do the exact same thing. After just bring our VP finance to say how do we give better? We've always shared the the high level numbers always. Everyone's always known how a lot, how much run way we had. You know what I burn rate was and all the rest, but not able to tie back to their job. But it's should. It was always just too complicated. But now we're about the same thing, which I think it's exciting to go. You've just done that. What do you do with that now? In terms of goal setting, we talked a bunch about KPI's setting goals before. How do you take those revenue targets and like the constraints of the budget and actually get set goals for your company today? Yes, so I don't know. Actually I was about to say it's traditional, but I don't know if what we do is traditional at all because I have, you know, no corporate varience outside of Sensor Tech. But so every person that's non production in the business has a KPI associated with them. So whether it's on the operation side and production, whether it's accounting, whether it's business development, sales marketing, every person in the company, aside from production because they have their own targets. Has A KPI. Aside from that, what we set our OK are so objectives and key results, and that's what I consider our stretch goals, and those feed up into sort of what I set. Over, is there strategic goals for the companies. Every year, usually with the...

...leadership team, we come up a sort of three or five big goals that the company trying to hit, and every person has to create a stretch goal that isn't tied to compensation or their annual review. So I don't want them to be feeling like they're constrained and their job is dependent on this stretch goal. I want their Kpis to be how they evaluated at your end, but they're OK ours are really how they're helping push the company forward, and so we have two separate ones. That's that's interesting. We also use okay ares. We've probably done less of a good job of doing individual Kpis mostly because it's been really difficult with, like most our teeming technical and velt inside and it's not really we can talk about on time delivery, but it's been trickier. So we're doing more on project by project basis. Type of thing. But I'm curious on the okay our front, how are you managing the two of those together, as I see a lot of companies struggle with focus. How are you managing the oak ares when you combine in the fact that individual have their kpis? How do they think about that? I guess as a team? Well, and then we phase them in and I think that maybe was part of our success as we started with KPIS. Okay ores were something that came later on and we started with, you know, five Kpis for the company. Your basics on time, shipping, revenue goals really basic, the number of armies that we get, the things that I thought were most important. And that's ballooned now to I don't know, thirty or forty Kpis across the company, Okay Ores or something that we brought in probably a couple of years later. So everyone is really entrenched in the KPI format, which is all still excel spreadsheets. For us, you know, we've not found a really elegant way of managing all of that other than through a an excel spreadsheet that everyone feels out once a month. On the okay our side, we use the sauna to track all of ours. And so I set the strategicals usually, you know, just as early in the new year and everyone gets sort of thirty days to figure out what their ninety day plan looks like to support one of the five main company wide goals and how they fit in what that looks like. Can you give me an example, where you can...

...generalize, if you want, of like an oak are and a semi related KPI, like what the difference is in your lent? Yeah, so let's maybe on the marketing side. That's a good one. So one of our main strategicals was building brand awareness, and so we rebranded, I think in October of last year. And how does that roll out? And so we have a marketing plan that's associated with it and so Noah, who's my marketing manager, has a pretty intense set of Ok ours or how we make sure our brand is getting out into the market and people understand it and interact with it. But on the KPI side, it's very much the analytics of how many twitter followers do we have and how many more? How many impressions do we get on certain clicks and, you know, how many interactions did we have on this linkedin post and so all of that. So that's how he's the real numbers and the meetiness of the analytics come out on the KPI side, where the okay our side is really the sort of we want to target ten percent more or fifty percent more or that kind of said. Yeah, I like that because I've seen it before, like in a pyramid of how people have Kpis. You know, there maybe fifty Kpis and you've got a couple that are your north stair. You communicate to everybody and here's then new of supporting Kpis. And I think okay are is fitting a little bit like that, because you've been objective, which yours of brand awareness. You then dive into your key result, which might be fifty percent off your revenue comes from marketing or whatever might be, and your kpis are obviously, yes, we have toys, as many followers on social media or we've got, you know, some so much engagement, whatever. And I think it's really important both for business leader and engineering leader, because that tying from top to bottom is a struggle. It really is a struggle, and what I see in engineering orgs is oftentimes it's hey, we're trying to get a product market in whatever, say it's automotive, fifty four months and here's a bunch of stuff to track and then they have no idea really is, truthfully, if they're on track. I've side of a schedule that was developed and the thing that I think is scariest about that up is that schedule now and truthful, like...

...two thousand and twenty two, where we're going? Assume they need to be forty months and thirty months and we're getting from place in with just trackingly. Are we in the right place not? Are we doing the effective thing, because there's no easy way to know. There's no good way to know. Right. What does a Sawna look like for you? How are you using a sauna to track the OKA ares? Are you guys setting up? There's a walk me through the technical set, because I think from most people we use lot. We these lattice. We've actually used notion like. How are you setting it up in a sauna and assigning ownership? Like just talk me through sort of logistics of that. Yeah, so I'll start with there's a goal section in assauna. So I think you need to be like a premium user for that to kick in. We historically we only use this son up for project management, so for all the sort of product development things or process improvements, and we just had a sort of department by Department, Project by project, and then we kicked in goals last year and this year was when we really it was absolutely necessary. It was part of job description that you had to go into a sauna, and so I go in and I start with the five top level goals for the company and then everyone fits in there their objectives and then their key results under one of those five. So everything that they're working on has to fit in under one of those five. Otherwise for me it's not effective use of their time to pushing the company forward. And so people have to put in their own and then they have to update their own and so I do a quarterly review with all of my direct reports and everyone actually has a quarterly review done just to review. Did you stay on track? You know, did you get done what you thought you were going to be able to get done? If not, why, and if not, what are you focusing on? One of the things that I've been talking about a lot with my senior leadership team is are eighty twenty. It's like, where are you spending eighty percent of your time for the next month or the next quarter, and I try to work in thirty or ninety day blocks because I don't I can't seem to think beyond that individually anyways. And so my eighty twenty for the first quarter was really to focus on bed. But just with covid and not being able to travel and do trade shows,...

...the bed is hard. It's really hard, at least it was for us, and so for me, I my eighty twenty was to focus on getting the bed back up and running the way I wanted it to be. Round my head of OPS, her, you know, her ninety day focus was on quality audits. We have an Isao audit coming up and so she needed to focus her eighty percent on that and that helps also keep us on track. Is like. This is what my eight twenty is, because everything else has been a filter. That's also transparent. So all of our OK ours, all of our KPI's hundred percent transparent across the whole company. So people should be able to know when they if they look at yours, to be like this is her focus. And so if she's not responding about all these other things that I've thrown on her list. This is why? Well, I mean one of the keys, if you if you go through and listen to some of the books, like John Door talks about o care, is like one of the key things is that they have to be public because if they're not, the it's easiest thing in the world to change. People communicate well, I don't fit together, like there's a bunch of problems. They're kind of stand from. That is the team responsible for updating these on a cadence. Like what is the CAIDENS, which you look at sort of performance there? Is it still quarterly or do you folks to do this weekly and then you have a meeting corely go through it? What sort of like the reporting caidens for keeping on track, for keep you eyes? It's monthly. In for okrs it's monthly and quarterly. So we don't get down to the the weekly, Bi weekly. I find monthly is is enough for us. That might change with time, but that's that's generally the kids that we're working off of. We've done a really interesting thing. Less so, while we hired a VPM marketing MJ actually brought in this like new format for running weekly or monthly meetings and the first five minutes really is is a highlight of, you know, Wins and challenges. But then it's a take stock on your okres and you're only allowed to share whether it's on track or off track and no commentary. And the whole point then is that the ones that are on track, you know, move past go to next thing. The ones that are off track, there's a section down below where the whole time people are...

...given their update. For the first five people are adding your ideas of identifying challenges, are identifying questions or things explore and using that then to focus the next fifty five minutes that meeting. Say, if there's ten things that came out of it, you may pick four of them and that becomes a folks in the meeting. It's been really impactful. We only started doing it the last three weeks, but it's been it's been a huge performance improvement for us. Actually talking about the hard stuff and like also just like focusing on the on the parts set of keys. So could be a cool thing. What ASN has a sign? No, a son is so visual and like you can see very clearly how things are going. anyways, something that happen process reason I was like, Oh man, this is amazing, so figuring to sure that I might have to steal that idea. It's good that. Yeah, no, a sound is great, like but like anything right, it's garbage and it was garbage out, and so people aren't updating it. You don't get any information out of it, and so when I'm on the road I'm not getting, you know, updates and things. It's because people aren't in the habit of using it, and that's something that we've been really focused on, and not just on the project management side and even on the production side, is people need to be logging their hours on and we're not trying to monitor whether they worked at Eighthour Day or not. It's I need how long they spent on this process so that I know how to cost it for future jobs right. And so that data is really, really important when we're trying to cost new things and know for if we're losing money on something where we shouldn't be or we didn't cost it right. It's just trying to get that idea across that the data that you put in is really useful for what comes out and how you work with it, and it's not necessarily going to impact your job. Right. Well, one thing that you and I talked a bit about before was that one of the hardest part of KPIS, any set of goals, is understanding how to predict if it's going to happen or not, because a lot of times the goal is really a lag measure. Engineering in particular, I think, strolls super hard with this. It's like the goal is to deliver a car to market in fifty four months. That is like the most lag measure if there was ever one, because that's a...

US or no and it's very black and white. There's a bajillion things that can fit into that's going to happen or not. But there are some good indicators. How did you think about lead and likeg indicators, because I find businesses almost do a bit of a stronger job here. I want to dive into you know, what can we take from that to help engineering teams also similarly be more productive that way? Yeah, I was thinking about this. So most of our KPIS are our leg in Kpis. The leading ones, I would say, are very much on the on the sales marketing bed side. Is. You know how many opportunities are you generating? What's the split of the quotes that you're doing, because we have different business lines, right, and so we're quoting from different ones and we try to do it based on capacity, and that would very much be the leading side of it. And then everything else, I would say, on the production side, is a leg and things that were measuring, like you know, on time deliveries easy, but also what's our profit loss? For sure off of budget, things like a scrap. How much are we scrapping? How good our yields? That talks a better process and how well that is. We used to measure things like machine up time. Are we maintaining our machine? So it's usually a leg that feeds into an improvement down the road. But it is tricky because I think the ONTIME, delivery quality overall budget like. They're very much the KPIS and engineering leaders look out for their business unit and most times it's the same problem. Right, you really don't fully know outside of looking at a very complex schedule, whereas if you look at sales, so if we're talking about your exact example or bed revenue, might be the lag or the ultimate goal. You can look at fails, qualified leads pipeline something else and have a pretty good prediction over time if you're going to hit that goal based on how everything else is going. It's not the same and engineer, it always leads into this, say, massive crunch, surprises at the end and it's really tricky. It's one of the things that we're actually trying to figure out as a company is how do we give teams better insight as to what's going to happen, because it's really, really hard to know right now...

...because, like you just said, even the quality front or scrap right, there's definitely ways to predict if that's going to be good or bad when you're doing the actual design work, and it's like I entered a real opportunity on the engineering front to get that part right for sure. Yeah, something that I'd like to incorporate, you know, like the PDRs and the CDRs, if you're doing those design reviews and if you had a metric around those design reviews, I think that that would impact and that would be definitely like a leading indicator of what might happen on quality side or are amized, like if you didn't do those and you didn't do it in a timely fashion. Or your customers pushing to get a product before you finished development. What's the effect right? Yeah, we're actually literally working on this right now, because we pulled data for customers sort of manually. Today. We haven't built out sort of the other side is to see it in a beautiful way, the same way if you're doing sales and use Gong and it's telling you, well, you spoke too long on this phone call, which means a customers probably a set, which means you're probably going to win. They've got the whole thing figured out. We're early innings about we're starting some really interesting insight because I give you two examples of a company. One we could see turnaround a designer view of a drawing multiple versions in the same calendar day every single time across the entire Org. The other put data and Colab that remain current for sixty days before they actually finished. The designer. You, and if I need to do a whole lot of math, realize which one of those two companies is likely going to deliver on time, because there's just such a difference in effectiveness and agility there. And that's one of the things, like you said, PDRCD are like we're thinking. It's a combination of time anticipation. How much is actually found ahead of time? I think one of the interesting lead indicators you see in the software world is what percentage of bugs are you catching upstream of release? And then why do I get an after the same way for scrap right, pretty easy to tell. What percentage of problems are you catching before their change orders? Very similar type conversation. Don't know the answer...

...to all this yet and still no lether do. I. I think it's an important topic, though, because the way you run a business, in my opinion, running engineering or shouldn't be that much different. It's just a different focus. Right, you're ultimate trying to achieve it. You're being held accountable to delivered anyways. So thinking about running engineering or like you would have business, I think is a is a strength for leaders. Last question for you. Thinking about the last eleven, fifteen years as whole journey, what do you most excited about for sciensor tech now, like? What's the next few years looking like? What are you excited for? Kind you give us a bit of future? Oh, good question. We're we've been on a pretty good growth curve the last few years. Some of that definitely attributed to our move to Nova Scotia. Some of those just timing. I think we're coming out with some really exciting products towards the end of this year. Products are a stretch for us. There are, you know, big part of our our stretch goals in our okay, our so last couple of years coming out with products that are more than just a component, the more of a system, and I feel like that's that gets us into new markets. I'm talking to different types of customers. We're looking at an expansion into the US as well, so that is also something. It's super excited about because it a whole new market, whole different way of doing business too, and the possibilities, the opportunities are greater. Obviously we're risk to but that's stuff that I love doing. So yeah, lots lots to look forward to. That's amazing. I've always been following along for a couple of years now, but I'm excited to see the system side of this. I think there's such an opportunity. Like I'm a engineer, a BT background and obviously I'm a nerd for anything technical, like me built out, but it does a really cool opportuny, especially now the way the economy shifting, or so much focus on blue tech, and there's so many things that I think are huge opportunity here. So lots of people are talking about bringing stuff back to North America and we do everything in house right, and that's been always are and I think that's helped us right working from the component level, we add to that and so now we're adding a little a bit more and it's a stretch, but...

...starting from the bear fundamentals and working up, I think it works in our favor. So with everyone wanting to buy local, that's good for us. That's amazing. On the US front, are you plan to open an office there or just simply start stout selling into the market? So we already sell a fair bit into the market. The plan is for an office, whether that's just a sales office or whether it's more. Nova Scotia was supposed to be just a sales office and now we've got eighteen strong here and the two manufacturing facilities. So who knows? I'm your thank you so much for joining today and I'm really looking forward to seeing these new products come out this year. Good luck with the next little bit and look forward to catching up with you in person sometime soon. Awesome things. I don't have a good one. COLLAB is on a mission to accelerate the pace of engineering innovation by giving design teams a better way to work. As an engineering leader, you know it's crucial to empower your team to do their best work. Let collab help you achieve your goals with our web based tool that makes it easy to share and review cad files with anyone, so you can focus on the work that batters without missing a beat or a bolt. Learn more at Collab softwarecom. You've been listening to pure check, a Collab podcast. Keep connected with us by subscribing to the show in your favorite podcast player, and please leave a rating on the show. That helps us keep delivering conversations about how the engineering world is changing and how you can challenge a Status Quell. Until next time,.

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